POI Rankings Proposal
POI is going to provide team rankings for the 2008-2009 season, similar to the NPTE rankings.
Here is our current proposal, any comments are welcome:
Teams will receive points for their performance at their two best tournaments. Results from the third tournament will be used as a tiebreaker, then fourth and so on. A team that ran out of tournaments shall receive 0 points in the subsequent tiebreaker. If two teams are tied and one received points from two tournaments and the other received points from one tournaments, the team with points from two tournaments shall be ranked higher. Only results from varsity divisions will be used. Due to lack of adequate coverage of other areas, only teams from CFL and GGSA will be ranked.
School Rankings will be done by adding up the points of all teams the school has in the top 50 with the stipulation that if the same debater is in multiple teams in the top 50, only the points of the best of these teams will be counted fully; the points of other teams will count as half. If both debaters on a team are members of higher-ranking teams, their points shall not count towards the school total. In case of a tie, the school with more teams in the top 50 will place higher.
Logan is used as a “baseline tournament.” Breaking at Logan gives you 4 points, any consecutive elimination round win is 2 more points. For the rest of tournaments, a team’s percentile is used so that the team receives approximately the same points as a team with that same percentile at Logan would receive. Field strength and number of rounds are also taken into account. A championship is 1 bonus point. In an elim where two teams from the same school hit and do not debate, each team receives 1 point.
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Stanford, SCU 1, SCU 2, UOP
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CFL/GGSA leagues/Windsor 3-1=3 windsor 4-0=5 4-0= 6 runner-up=7 champ=8 |
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| State Quals 3-2=3 4-2=5 4-1=6 alternate=8 qualifier=10 |
CHSSA State each win=2 |
P.S. Defeating a #1 ranked team gives you .5 bonus points which do not count towards the two-tournament cap.
P.P.S. A team in which at least one member is also a member of a higher-ranking authentic team shall be ranked, but shall not be counted as an authentic team. Non-authentic teams are italicized on POI Rankings and their ranks are shown in parenthesis. A team’s rank equals a number of authentic teams that rank higher than it plus one.
P.P.P.S. The new School Rankings will be calculated by adding uncapped (not limited to top two tournaments) points of all its teams (including non-authentic and ones not in top 50). Ties shall be broken as follows: 1) a school with more authentic ranked teams shall place higher 2) a school with more ranked teams shall place higher 3) a school with a smaller sum of ranks of its member teams shall place higher.
16 Comments to POI Rankings Proposal
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This is Artem. Ritk’s comment didn’t go through for some reason, so i’m reposting it.
Comment:
The system has a few flaws. I’ll address only the major one since it’s getting late.
The system needs to account for multiple successful tournaments (which I don’t think it does yet).
So, if I go to five tournaments and get 2nd place at all five, I should be considered better than someone that gets 1st place at one tournament and fails at all the rest.
The point scale seems to be a little interesting. a 3-1 record get’s a team 3 points while a 4-0 record is worth 7 points. it seems a unfair to give a team who picked up one more ballot an additional 4 points for that. and i’d also like to say thanks to the owners of the site for putting this together. HS parli debate isn’t very popular out side of the west coast and to have a whole website (even with it’s minor flaws and all) is still really appreciated.SO thanks you. But back to the point system, it may be interesting to implement a bonus system, let’s say a team is 1st seed in a tournament, the points they get for breaking should be doubled, so instead of 4 for breaking that team would get 8 points. And something else that would make this scale more interesting would be to award bonus points to any teams who were able to defeat the top ranked team. So if a team was able to beat the logan or lynbrook team, that team should get an additional (insert bonus points here) to their overall score to increase their rank. Thanks for your dedication to HS Parli debate. By the way, what school affiliation does this website have
This website is not formally affiliated with any school. However, it has been founded/designed/programmed by Lynbrook students. We will create an about page soon with info on the site staff. Since this site has only been in existence for three weeks, we didn’t have time to recruit people from other schools.
Prelims/head to head count all sound like good ideas, but it will limit the tourneys we can use to the ones for which we have obtained full packets, so it’s basically a quality v quantity issue.
For leagues, we also used the percentile principle. 4-0 means you are in the top 6%, 3-1 is top 25%. That’s a fairly big difference.
Out of curiosity, what region are you from and how did you find this website?
P.S. Thanks for all the help/compliments.
We’re adding Windsor and UOP to the rankings.
I found this website using the power of google. and my region isn’t important. But my proposition for giving teams that defeat the rank #1 team still seems like a good idea to me. All of the results that the logan team have are online and as for the lynbrook team, they know their own SCU results and the other information is available online.
“All of the results that the logan team have are online and as for the lynbrook team, they know their own SCU results and the other information is available online.”
Fair enough. Bonus points added.
If you want me to i could pass on the website to my parli friends from my school and other schools.
That would definitely be welcome
Add WBFL and TVFL from LA area.
The 2008-2009 rankings only included CFL/GGSA “[d]ue to lack of adequate coverage of other areas.” We’d be happy to include SoCal if we can get comprehensive results from the majority of it’s tournaments. If you are willing to help us out with that, we will readily expand the rankings.
What’s a Windsor 4-0?
Windsor is a GGSA-only tournament that has 4 prelims and breaks to finals. Last year there were 3 4-0 teams, the top 2 of which debated in finals. The 4-0 that didn’t clear got 5 points instead of 6, because a 4-0 team that is ranked weakest of all 4-0s should get less points than an average wildcard (which gets 6).
Maybe the point ranking system would be more efficient if we didn’t any league tournaments at all except state quals.
Good point, we’ll get rid of leagues and Windsor. Rankings update will come out later this week.
Will the 4-0 in leagues still count for individual schools?
School points are just a sum of their teams’ uncapped points, so if we decide to go with Erik’s proposal, then no.